The North American F-86 Sabre Market is Broken

"For Sweden" (rallybeetle) 05/10/2018 at 13:40 • Filed to: Planelopnik, North American F-86 Sabre, North American, F-86 Sabre, Sabre, F-86, Fighter Jet, Fighter Jets, Project Planes, Project Cars, Consumer Advice

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The North American F-86 Sabre, the iconic jet fighter of the free world, with 9,860 units built and 45 years of active service. Yet, like the countless Volkswagen Type IIs that were built in the same era, the used market is wilder than MiG Alley.

Not even John Glenn could fix the used Sabre market

Consider this project !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ; !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . It comes with a fuselage, turbine, wings, wings, flight control surfaces, and racks of parts (no word on if the sweet Dodge Ram dually is included). It even comes with drop tanks, in case you need the extra range to make the pancake fly-in and not have to buy their fuel.

One hundred ninety five kays is a lot of scratch for an old jet when the Soviet planes exist, but no one else at the air park will have a Sabre. Yet all those bones are just the beginning. You have to complete the project, and you know Boeing won’t help. Then, you have to make good friends with the local FSDO, and likely keep the large Experimental label. Then there’s insurance (whistles)!

But for only $230,000 more, you can avoid all this and buy a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . No assembly required, no awkward calls with Boeing interns, someone will insure it, and at least one FSDO doesn’t think it’s a suicide machine. You only have to worry about the gaudy paint job, but depreciation helps you here.

“But it’s over twice the price!” you say. Of course it’s over twice the price; it’s a complete vehicle! It’s not on blocks like some F0x Body, you can fly it home today! And seriously ask yourself, go find a mirror and say this out loud, “I can restore a 65 year old fighter jet without manufacturer support for less than $230,000.” Do you believe that statement? Do you?

Either the project Sabre is freakishly expensive, or the complete Sabre is absurdly good value. Which is it, Oppo?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:46

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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:48

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I volunteered at an air museum when I was in the military, I worked on a Sabre sometimes. I helped install a canopy one time.

For Sweden > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/10/2018 at 13:50

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Sounds like you have the means and skills to buy that project.

Wacko > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:53

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are you trying to be the Tavarish of planes/jets

Why buy a new new Cessna when you can get this F86

RacinBob > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:53

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Small world in that about 6 Miles East of Austin MN on a farm on the access road North of I 90. there was what for about 35 years sat what looked to be an wingless, rudderless Sabre jet in an open corn crib next to a farm house. Its gone now. I wonder if it is the same plane though I doubt it as that plane was in the weather all those years... Here’s the place on google earth.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:55

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Ah....no, my wife has drawn the line at four cars, I don’t think jets are ok. My dad is a Naval Aviator, USMC though. He could fly it, he flew Phantoms and EA-6Bs.

For Sweden > Wacko 05/10/2018 at 13:55

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But for real though

ttyymmnn > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:55

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Crack Pipe on the resto. And that gaudy paint job is at least a little historic, since the Skyblazers did, in fact, fly F-86s in Europe. That said, if I bought it, I’d restore it to historic combat livery. Now, to get a loan and learn to fly...

WilliamsSW > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 13:57

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Lol - seeing so many warbirds (privately owned) at Oshkosh every year, I’ve long wondered how the economics of those aircraft work - especially the early jets.

I think it would take Kelly Johnson to get #1 airworthy for $425k all in.

WilliamsSW > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/10/2018 at 14:02

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The jet is much safer than those cars, though!

At least in its current condition...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 14:03

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For the Skyblazers’ Sabre to cost so little, there must be something terribly wrong with it, like it needs a new wing spar or something. I would expect a serviceable, flyable Sabre to have another zero on its price tag. Is how I feel.

ttyymmnn > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 14:05

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Wait—that’s a Canadair Sabre. Did you do the conversion from Loonies to USD?

Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW! > RacinBob 05/10/2018 at 14:07

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Oh my God! I remember seeing that as a kid when my Dad and I would go to one of the branches of our business. It was so cool to see!

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 05/10/2018 at 14:09

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The aircraft is in the USA, so I’m assuming USA-bucks

RallyWrench > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 14:15

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Seems a Sabre should be worth significantly more in flyable condition, right? Like, they misplaced a comma? This is like the old Porsche market though. Basketcase 911s are worth way too much compared to roadworthy cars given the cost to restore.

OPPOsaurus WRX > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 14:44

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pretty sure thats a chevy, not a dodge

atfsgeoff > RallyWrench 05/10/2018 at 14:45

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No comma misplaced. For 4.6 mil you can get a much newer, MUCH faster, higher altitude, mind-bendingly maneuverable MiG-29 in full flight-ready, FAA-certified condition.

Of course, for any former military jet aircraft, the cost of entry is a drop in the bucket compared to continuous operating and maintenance costs.

For Sweden > OPPOsaurus WRX 05/10/2018 at 14:47

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._.

RallyWrench > atfsgeoff 05/10/2018 at 14:55

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Really?!? Jesus. I’m a little surprised something that potent is so easily available, and that “cheap”. Operating costs for any jet are going to be prohibitive, I’m sure. Just watched the Vulcan piece on Netflix, that was something like 2.5M a year.

For Sweden > atfsgeoff 05/10/2018 at 15:04

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How much will the USAF pay aggressor training contractors?

Chariotoflove > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 19:02

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The latter. Buzzing your neighbors in your new-to-you F86 Sabre...

...priceless.

McMike > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 19:29

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“I can restore a 65 year old fighter jet without manufacturer support for less than $230,000 with junkyard Cessna parts”

For Sweden > McMike 05/10/2018 at 19:34

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omg

Jayvincent > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/10/2018 at 21:58

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a pretty, pretty bird: my hat is off in thanks and awe

f86sabre > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 21:58

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Clearly the complete one is good value, but that doesn’t mean the project won’t get done.

What I wonder is how tough it would be to fit one of the more modern small jet engines to the aircraft. It’s eng8nenonly made about 6000lbs of thrust. There should be plenty of options that get you increased reliability and safety.

There are a few Boeing folks in Seal Beach who might be willing to help.

For Sweden > f86sabre 05/10/2018 at 22:02

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It would be a good project for the rotation program kids

f86sabre > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 22:04

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Kind of like how the auto shop kids had to restor an old car.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Jayvincent 05/10/2018 at 22:05

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They had a simulator at the base and he used to put us in that. Lots of buttons. They have a gold tub to protect the people.

f86sabre > For Sweden 05/10/2018 at 22:07

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It’s also cheaper than a slat cable drum for an MD-88, so it’s got that going for it.

Spanfeller is a twat > f86sabre 05/10/2018 at 22:18

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A helicopter jet engine could do the trick. But a big one... like a Super Puma engine

hmmm, nice.

Chariotoflove > McMike 05/10/2018 at 23:49

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Dammit, you blindsided me.

Chariotoflove > f86sabre 05/10/2018 at 23:50

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Please let somebody do this. I’d love to read that story. It would be like Corvette Summer meets Iron Eagle.

Grindintosecond > For Sweden 05/11/2018 at 09:36

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$2,000 per hour fuel burn......plus maintenance.

Grindintosecond > f86sabre 05/11/2018 at 09:42

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The old jet in this plane is actually a fairly reliable engine. It’s centrifugal flow type, just like an enormous garrett turbo with a burner section. Cheap parts. However, if you want efficient modern engines, do what these guys did:

The ME262 project in Dallas made castings of the old engine and put a learjet J-85 inside that casting. If you want an ME-262, just call them up and they’ll build you one from all their tooling they have ready to go. Just $5mil. If you talk nice to them they could do the same thing and make a casting to hide a newer jet in there, but forget a turbofan, that exhaust exit is too small to make it work.

For Sweden > Grindintosecond 05/11/2018 at 10:03

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Cheaper than NetJets